TORONTO — Stop me if you've heard this before. Martin McDonagh has unveiled a dark comedy of mischievous wit and melancholy soulfulness, and it's immediately been hailed as one of the best movies of the year.
Yes, the British-Irish writer-director of "The Banshees of Inisherin," "In Bruges" and "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri" has been here before. But McDonagh's latest, "Wild Horse Nine," is also something different and more provocative.
The film, which has played to standing ovations across the Venice, Telluride and Toronto film festivals, stars John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell as CIA officers who have recently laid the groundwork for the 1973 coup in Chile. But they're now taking a trip to Easter Island, as one says, "to see the heads" — the Moai stone sculptures. Chris (Malkovich) is dying of cancer and increasingly loose-lipped about his colorful CIA past, including a presidential assassination.
Their conversation, as is typical in McDonagh's brilliant, barbed dialogue, is laced with deeper ruminations on regret and death, with more absurd digressions mixed in. In one memorable scene, Chris traces a connection between democracy, homosexuality and good cheese.
“I wanted those guys to feel like an old married couple in a way,” McDonagh says.
He recently met a reporter for coffee in Toronto to talk about "Wild Horse Nine" and why he's so eager for the conversation it might generate. Searchlight Pictures releases the film Nov. 6.
AP: You wrote “In Bruges” after a trip to the Belgian city. This came out of a trip to Easter Island. How important is travel to your writing?
McDonagh: Very much. I love to travel. I like traveling alone. It always prompts some kind of thinking. Bruges was just a weekend trip for fun and the town became a character literally while I was there. Fifteen years ago I went to Easter Island with the hope that something similar would happen to the Bruges scenario. It looked like a beautiful backdrop to some kind of story to tell but it took a bunch of iterations of it before it became what you saw.
AP: Do you feel like being removed from regular life frees you?
McDonagh: Maybe things seem much more cinematic. I never had any desire to write something set in London, for instance, and I never have. I don’t see it with fresh eyes. I do like traveling around America. I used to get trains around America a lot. It feels like a CinemaScope window across the West. I feel like finding the place is going to be key to my next project, which I don’t have right now. Part of that is: Where do you want to spend six months of your life? South of France sounds good! And where is cinematic that hasn’t been captured before?
AP: Do you tend to start with two characters talking? Some of your films are centered on odd couples.
McDonagh: The odd couple talking thing, I did three or four versions of that. They were talking fine but there was no purpose or reason for them to be there. But I had always been fascinated with what the CIA did in Chile in the 1970s. When I thought about that, everything fell into place. It wasn’t just two cranky old guys talking.
AP: I've never seen a CIA agent character like Malkovich's character — a guy who just wants to spill all the beans.
McDonagh: I don’t think they’re as classy as John. I think we’re painting way too good a picture of the CIA. He’s erudite. He’s got a sense of humor. He regrets stuff. And I don’t think they do.
AP: He's ready to be up front about some of the U.S.'s underhanded dealings. Do you feel like it's a time for frankness about America's darker side?
McDonagh: Even while we were still editing it, it felt more and more like it was a commentary on the modern day, especially with a lot of the recent stuff that Trump’s been doing. It wasn’t the direct purpose of it, but I kind of liked that it felt that way. The tragic thing is: history keeps repeating itself, and more and more stupidly and less and less secretively. They kept their horrible stuff secret back then. It’s like they don’t care what people think about it anymore. I think that’s a darker place we’re in now. Shame doesn’t come into it.
AP: There's a moment in the film when Malkovich's character suggests peaceful protest marches have no effect. What do you think?
McDonagh: Whether or not I agree with it or not is for a later chat. I’m not saying the pacifist version is wrong or doesn’t work at times. But I do think the CIA and KGB and most vicious governments around the world are more happy with polite protest marches.
AP: You had twice before, for “Seven Psychopaths” and your play “A Behanding in Spokane,” tried to work with Malkovich. What drew you to him?
McDonagh: He can be ultra dangerous and you feel scared of him more than most. Maybe Joe Pesci. I was scared the first time I had a Zoom with him. But also his dexterity with comedy. But mostly knowing that in the silent moments you’d see acres of sorrow and regret when he’s seemingly not doing anything — when he’s just looking out of a window or listening to a Dictaphone or smoking a cigarette.
AP: Was it at all purposeful to have Malkovich playing a memoir-writing CIA officer like he did in the Coen brothers’ “Burn After Reading”?
McDonagh: Not at all. In fact, I had kind of forgotten that whole section of that film until I rewatched it a few months ago. I hope that they don’t think I stole the whole memoir-of-a-CIA-guy bit from him. (Laughs) But John’s so good at everything that history is going to repeat itself.
AP: As much acclaim as Malkovich is rightly getting, Rockwell is also great even if his performance is less eye-catching.
McDonagh: It’s not but it’s completely generous. I think it’s still one of his best-ever performances. It’s not as showy as some of the previous things I’ve done with Sam or some of Sam’s other brilliant work. But there aren’t many who could convey the love that’s there without bawling his eyes out. You feel like it’s an equal two-hander at the same time as John’s character will always be the lead.
AP: Do you identify more with either of their characters?
McDonagh: John’s got a lot of me. I like the outrageousness and the danger of where he goes sometimes. In my more sarcastic, anarchistic moments, I find that sort of stuff funny. He’s an awful guy, he’s done awful things. But on top of that, I do feel like he says a lot of funny stuff that I agree with — even if it’s just cheeses. (Laughs) A scene like that, you know you’re being naughty but I think the principle of it is actually sort of loving and weirdly pro-democratic, pro-gay and pro-cheese.
AP: Coming out of the pandemic, you talked about committing to writing a movie every year.
McDonagh: That’s gone away! (Laughs) I realize after a year or two I’m fundamentally lazy. But this feels like a quite short time between.
AP: Well, choosing to make a movie on Easter Island probably doesn't speed things up.
McDonagh: But it does combine vacation time on an island with making a movie. (Laughs) That’s what I’m going to do next. Tahiti, 1900, two blokes.
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